Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

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astrolearner15
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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by astrolearner15 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:41 am

^^ Do you mean your Jupiter is in Capricorn, as that is the sign of debilitation, rather than Aquarius?

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by neelkumar » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:30 pm

astrolearner15 wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:41 am
^^ Do you mean your Jupiter is in Capricorn, as that is the sign of debilitation, rather than Aquarius?
Sorry, I didn't quite get your question.
What I meant is Jupiter in Aquarius isn't supposed to be a good placement..that too in the lagna..right?
But then, according to the rule mentioned in this thread..does Jupiter (because Jupiter is retro in my chart), make it a good placement?
My birth details: 29/08/1974, 19:10, Ambarnath (Maharashtra)

सजदा करूँ, पूजा करूँ.. तू ही बता क्या करूँ ~
लगता है ये, तेरी नज़र, मेरा धरम ले जायेगी

तन्हाई है, और तू भी है..चाहा वही मिल गया ~
लग जा गले, खुशबू तेरी, तन-मन मेरा मेहकाएगी

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by astrolearner15 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:31 pm

^^ In your previous post, you mentioned that your Jupiter was debilitated. So I was confirming whether it was in Capricorn or Aquarius.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by neelkumar » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:58 pm

My Jupiter is in Aquarius. He is retrograde. Aquarius is also my lagna. And I am Capricorn Rashi.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by nneeysar » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:37 am

Respected Marian I,
I hope you are fine and enjoying good health. I want little help. Saturn Retro in Saggi, so it will work as saturn in gemini. So my question is saturn in gemini works better than saturn in Sagittarius, as saturn is neutral to jupiter and friend of mercury.

Thanks

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by marian i. » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:15 am

Hi,

Dear Neelkumar, Jupiter is not debilitated in Aquarius (only Capricorn is the debilitation Rasi for Jupiter). In Aquarius is not that good because this Rasi is ruled by Saturn and Rahu, which are tamasic in nature, and also Aquarius is the natural bhadaka Rasi for the natural Zodiac. In your case, Jupiter gives the results of the opposite Rasi- Leo. This is much better.

Dear Nneeysar, Saturn is equally good in Saggitarius and Gemini. But, some Raja Yogas are formed by Saturn in Saggitarius (like Saturn in Lagna in Saggitarius), which is considered a good placement (also for Saturn in Pisces).



Regards,
M

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by neelkumar » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:53 am

marian i. wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:15 am
Hi,

Dear Neelkumar, Jupiter is not debilitated in Aquarius (only Capricorn is the debilitation Rasi for Jupiter). In Aquarius is not that good because this Rasi is ruled by Saturn and Rahu, which are tamasic in nature, and also Aquarius is the natural bhadaka Rasi for the natural Zodiac. In your case, Jupiter gives the results of the opposite Rasi- Leo. This is much better.



Regards,
M
Thanks marian i. for clearing my confusion.
'Guess my Leo (7th) House is already quite crowded with Sun in His own House, Mercury and Mars at loggerheads and now Jupiter! :)
So, what happens to my Lagna - it's vacant then? In my Navamsha, Moon in Pisces Lagna..
My birth details: 29/08/1974, 19:10, Ambarnath (Maharashtra)

सजदा करूँ, पूजा करूँ.. तू ही बता क्या करूँ ~
लगता है ये, तेरी नज़र, मेरा धरम ले जायेगी

तन्हाई है, और तू भी है..चाहा वही मिल गया ~
लग जा गले, खुशबू तेरी, तन-मन मेरा मेहकाएगी

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by marian i. » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:05 am

Hi,

No, Jupiter is not in 7th house, but in Lagna and will give the results of Jupiter in Lagna but in Leo, and also its lordship (2nd and 11th houses) remains the same. Thus, you have Aquarius Lagna with Jupiter, but Jupiter is more sattvic by retrogradation.
Jupiter in 1st for this Lagna is a strong Dhana Yoga (ruler of 2nd and 11th as karaka for these houses). Whichever house Lord aspects/ occupy the Lagna will give the blessings of that house to the native.

Jupiter in Lagna and Mars in 7th is not a good combination, thus it is good if you will do some remedies for this.


Regards,
M

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by neelkumar » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:59 pm

Thanks marian i.

Could you please give an example or a situational instance explaining "Jupiter is in Lagna and will give results of Jupiter in Lagna but in Leo" - kinda confusing to me!

In your very early posts, you mentioned:
marian i. wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:32 am
Hi,

Yes, this rule always works.

Exalted+ retrograde= debilitated;
Debilitated+ retrograde= exalted.

Retrograde means "the opposite results", astrologicaly. Also, for all the retrograde planets this rule works. If someone has Jupiter in Gemini retrograde, he will act like Jupiter in Saggitarius. The worst placements are of natural malefic planets in kendra, in own house but retrograde. Hell on earth type of results.
The rule is given in a book which is considered authoritative (I forgat for now the title/ author of that book).

Regards,
M
1) "He will act like Jupiter in Sagittarius" - the word "act" means?
2) So the rule "Debilitated + Retrograde = Exalted" - doesn't hold in my chart or does it - since Jupiter is retrograde in Aquarius Lagna ?
3) These terminologies like "exalted" or "debilitated" - do they mean range - for example - I have no debilitated planets in my chart but I have no exalted planets either..but..some planets are enemies and one or two are friends - your thoughts please.

Thanks again!

P.S. Personally, if you ask me, I am pretty scared of my Jupiter - out of my sheer indulgence, early on in 2016, I wore a Pukhraj - within a month, my Dad's elder brother - whom I relate with quite a lot personality, mindset and even physical appearance-wise, passed away suddenly. That shook me so much that I immediately removed the Pukhraj - so much was the effect that even now sometimes, I get nervous thinking about the incident. Nonetheless, the entire 2016 was an awful year for me overall - right from the beginning until the end.
My birth details: 29/08/1974, 19:10, Ambarnath (Maharashtra)

सजदा करूँ, पूजा करूँ.. तू ही बता क्या करूँ ~
लगता है ये, तेरी नज़र, मेरा धरम ले जायेगी

तन्हाई है, और तू भी है..चाहा वही मिल गया ~
लग जा गले, खुशबू तेरी, तन-मन मेरा मेहकाएगी

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by nneeysar » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:14 am

[quote="marian i." post_id=237026 time=1489518935 user_id=17503]
Hi,


Dear Nneeysar, Saturn is equally good in Saggitarius and Gemini. But, some Raja Yogas are formed by Saturn in Saggitarius (like Saturn in Lagna in Saggitarius), which is considered a good placement (also for Saturn in Pisces).



Regards,
M
[/quote]



Thanks Marian I for reply. I understand but confused, as my saturn is retro in my birth chart, so i am sending my birth details. Also jupiter is in enemy sign in gemini. So any chance of jupiter cancellation of debilitation, like neech bhang or else???

Date of Birth: 24-Aug-1989
Time of Birth: 00:30 AM
Place of Birth: (city) Faisalabad, (Province) Punjab, Pakistan

Thanks. With Best Regards

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by nneeysar » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:19 am

[quote="marian i." post_id=237026 time=1489518935 user_id=17503]
Hi,

Dear Neelkumar, Jupiter is not debilitated in Aquarius (only Capricorn is the debilitation Rasi for Jupiter). In Aquarius is not that good because this Rasi is ruled by Saturn and Rahu, which are tamasic in nature, and also Aquarius is the natural bhadaka Rasi for the natural Zodiac. In your case, Jupiter gives the results of the opposite Rasi- Leo. This is much better.

Dear Nneeysar, Saturn is equally good in Saggitarius and Gemini. But, some Raja Yogas are formed by Saturn in Saggitarius (like Saturn in Lagna in Saggitarius), which is considered a good placement (also for Saturn in Pisces).



Regards,
M
[/quote]

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by anilesh47 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:14 am

The concept of retrograde is simple. Exalted planet retro means work as a debilitated. It means it works as exactly opposite house. For example Saturn exalted in Tula and it works like debilitated if it is retro, it means saturn debilitated in Aries which is exact opposite of Tula. The same theory is in other retro planets.
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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by lightray94 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:18 am

In my case it didn't work. I have saturn R in 7th (aquarius) and I feel having sasa yoga. whenever I take the initiative people follow me, even though I dont want to be a lead , experienced many times from my childhood

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by anilesh47 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:51 am

Its depend on case to case. Your saturn is retro in aquarius it means it works as exact opposite house it means Its Leo sign. And what is Leo? Leo itself is a Leader, Lion. Aquarius shows circle, followers..
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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:30 pm

To have a more complete perspective :

A retrogade planet :

(1) Exhibit characteristics of the opposite sign. This is because by going backwards, it means the planet is no more taking itself in the sign it is placed. It is taking care of the other - the 7th to where it is placed. Through taking care of others, can one gain spirituality, which is what a retrogade planet is all about, a spiritual seeker.

(2) A Yoga or a conjunction or aspects with planets that are its friends or neutrals within its camp mean that he planet is tied back to the sign in which it placed. Thus the sign it is placed becomes more dominant.

(3) A Yoga or a conjunction or aspects with planets that are its enemies or neutrals in the other camp (and therefore friends or neutrals within the camp of the opposite sign) mean that the planet swerves towards the opposite sign again.

For (2) and (3) determine the net effect whether it is towards the sign in which it is placed or towards the opposite sign in which it is placed.

(4) A retrogade planet with no participation in any yogas from where it is placed or not conjuncting any planets from where it is placed or not aspecting or receiving aspects from where it is placed would primarily reflect on the sign where it is retrogading to ie. the previous sign. Even if (2) and (3) exist, the goal of the retrogade planet is to seek the characteristic of the sign 12th to it, the sign that epitomises spirituality to the planet.

So like my Saturn is in the 7th retrogading in Capricorn, it is seeking perfection through work of the 6th bhava where it has the sign Sagittarius overlaying over the 6th, notwithstanding it is exhibiting characteristics of Capricorn and Cancer - Capricorn because Saturn is receiving an aspect and itself is aspecting Venus, its friend; Cancer because Saturn is conjuncting the Moon.

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Khoo

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Crystalpages » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Dear Khoo_jee,

Why would retrograde (anti-cycle) go 7 signs back? Bhrigu nadi recommends that it goes one sign backwards and that does make sense!

Perhaps myths about retrogrades have been OVER-STATED? They really are products of geocentric fixation?

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by neelkumar » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:19 pm

Can anyone really claim for sure if at all if a retrograde planet (for example : retro-Jupiter in Aquarius lagna, in my chart) will behave any different as compared to a non-retrograde planet?

Some say the effects are all same!
Some say the effects are different - now that's where there's even more confused analyses - as results/effects vary from astrologer to astrologer! :mrgreen:

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:38 am

Crystalpages :

The thing is in my chart it works.

Saturn exhibiting Cancer (7th sign) shows I am protective of myself to a large degree, Saturn in Capricorn (where it is situated) shows I set goals for achievement, Saturn in Aires (retrogade Saturn change to Mars) shows I tend not to wait for achievement to fall on my lap but I go for it which is fuelled by Saturn conjuncting Moon, its enemy; Saturn back to exhibiting Capricorn after exhibiting its flash of Arian energy because of its aspect by Venus, shows in the way I do not extend my reach too far in terms of goals after the first initiation, Saturn in Sagittarius (the sign it is retrogading back to) shows my intense sagacity for philosophical type of discussion etc.

This is one case where everybody has its views on retrogade and it seems to work. There are at least 4 viewpoints here and half of them, based on what is stated, is supported by authoritative texts.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:44 am

The one about the retrogade planet changing to another planet and back to its original self depending on the net influence on the said planet by friends and enemies is by Nikhil, a very intuitive astrologer I find.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:51 am

And Saturn rule the masses.....and 7th bhava rules your adaptability to the world.

I am equally at home in the west recording a pop song.......just like I can be in the east in India attending a religious meeting.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:53 pm

All retrogade planets give results of the house it is placed first and then the previous house.

Retrogade saturn is the only exception. It gives the results of the previous house first, and then the house in which it is placed. When young up to only until tecently, I use to sit quietly doing work. Only recently I am more sure of myself to fit into any environment.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:03 pm

Luckily my Saturn is in a better position in the Navamsa.

It is in 11th retrogading towards the 10th.

So it connects the gains house with the prestige house.

Saturn is in Gemini, opposite sign is Sagittarius and the 12th to it is Taurus. So based on our earlier discussion, Saturn has the characteristics of all the three signs. These three signs are all favourable for Saturn. But which sign does Saturn exhibit the most?

First we see whether the retrogade Saturn has more of its inherent nature or more of a martial nature as in the case where all retrogade Saturns turn into Mars.

It receives aspects from Sun and Mars which are Mars friends. So Saturn has strong inclination to turn to Mars.

But Saturn is with Mercury ie. conjunction in Mercury's own sign and Mercury is also strong by virtue of dispositing Moon which is fvourably posited being in Virgo ie. in a friendly Mercurial Moolatrikona sign. According to the scriptures, any planets that has the influence of the Moon becomes stronger. Thus Saturn has more of an inclination to stay on as Saturn rather than turn into Mars because of Mercury's strength

And because also of the friend and enemies net influence of Saturn as just discussed, Saturn also has more inclination to exhibit the characteristics of Gemini, rather than the opposite sign of Sagittarius. However, Saturn does well either way in Sagittarius or Gemini.

Saturn is retrogading towards Taurus, and this retrogading Saturn stays to its own true nature as just discussed, so its striving towards Taurus would be favourable, meaning it is relinquishing Gemini in a position of strength, and obtaining Venus which also gives it strength. Sagittarius influence is only in the background but it provides favouarble background energy.

Thus my Saturn is is highly intellectual (not least of which the fact that Moon and Mercury ruling mind and intelligence respectively are closely doing their part to influence this aspect of Saturn as well), and striving towards everyday common knowledge and moulding it also as a result (Taurus ruled by Venus, Venus standing for world knowledge and Taurus standing for everyday layman application knowledge). Saturn striving towards Taurus results in the moulding of this said knowledge. Sagittarius 7th to where the retrogade Saturn is placed shows this moulding has to do with divinatory input which the native has acquired by reading the scriptures (Sun in 5th and Mars in 4th, both aspecting Saturn, and these planets are Jupiter's friends, Jupiter being the ruler of Sagittarius the 7th sign from where Saturn is placed).

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:49 am

Remember I said that a retrogade Saturn gives the results of the previous sign from where it is situated first, followed by the sign where it is placed. But from the above elaboration, I also said that my retrogadoing Saturn is also striving towards the previous sign as ALL retrogading planets do.

This means after striving towards the previous sign, the sign where the retrogading planet is placed COMES OUT EVEN STRONGER, PROVIDED IT IS WEE PLACED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Only a retrogade Saturn can send you to the heights of heavens or down to the bottom of the pits.

Yet Saturn does not realise it is great by itself. But Saturn has more of an inclination to send you to the bottom rather than to the top UNLESS YOU ACT WITH VERY HIGH MOTIVES.

The above is actually played out in the puranic story where Shiva has to judge whether Vishnu or Brahma is greater. Then suddenly the latter two realise Shiva is the greatest, in the sense that he is an ascetic, and the term "infinity" means nothing to him. One must be contented with what one has and should not compare with others. When that happens, we can go all the way towards fulfilling our material aim (Vishnu is the householder and maintener of the cosmos) by searching our inner depths and using what we find there like our inner talents (he was the boar in this stoy and he dive downwards). Brahma who was a swan with soaring aspirations get stumble due to his false ego.

Vishnu ends up as powerful as Shiva. Brahma was not worshipped since then.

The story epitomises a retrogade Saturn, that to be great, search for inner peace (metaphorically it means have an equinamity perspective towards your inner resources) and then you can get extrrnal happinees (metaphorically it means satisfying all your worldly desires). Retrogade saturn gives results of its previous sign first but you must search hard for it like the boar which Vishnu turns into, and then the sign which the retrogade saturn is placed becomes very powerful, like Vishnu was elevated to being equal with Shiva.

I really must get 10 mukhi rudraksha representing vishnu and the 14 mukhi rudraksha representing shiva, hanuman (signifying being great spiritually) and saturn (signifying the way to achieve greatness) together.

That is what a retrogade Saturn is all about.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:07 am

In fact the 11th house is the best place to have a retrogade Saturn. What this mean is that the person's prestige and honour is propelling him to further gains in the end. And I have this in the navamsa as just discussed.

Satuurn is also ruling my 6th house of work and 7th house of business in the navamsa. A ruler of the 6th going into the 10th gives Jaya Yoga. And my Saturn is striving (retrogading) towards the 10th. A ruler of the 6th going to the 11th gives straight immediate gains on all fronts - 11th is 6th of the 6th, an expansion of the 6th as well as bhavat bhavam of the 6th. The 6th effects get bigger but the maleficity gets squashed at the same time (two -ves make one +ve).

A ruler of the 7th having association of the 10th gives karma redefined, since 7th is the 10th of the 10th. A ruler of the 7th going into the 11th shows at the same time gains in the long run - huge gains since Mercury is also a friend of Saturn and Saturn is the main planet of business if ruling the 7th (here Mercury is only just a general significator of business) - there is actually a yoga which speaks of saturn ruling the 7th going into the 11th alone or associating with friendly planets.

In Lal Kitab, Saturn in the 11th is also the best place to have a Saturn. All maleficity is squashed.

And the same with my Rahu in the 4th. Its maleficity is removed according to Lal Kitab.

Rahu conjuncting Mars shows Rahu inertness as well, its effects are downplayed, according to Lal Kitab. Rahu here LISTENS to Mars.

Ketu in the 10th shows a flag in the larger than life victory house of the 10th.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:09 am

Whoever says one cannot read a divisional chart of Navamsa on its own like a Rasi chart is sadly mistaken.

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